[Opening theme music]

Martin Feld  00:10

Hello, and welcome to Voices of BlueScope: the podcast where we go behind the scenes at BlueScope to meet the people who create strength every day. I'm your host, Martin Feld; thank you for joining us. In this special episode, we're featuring an extended interview with Mark Vassella, former BlueScope Managing Director and CEO. He kindly joined us in Port Kembla to recount his personal experience, covering family history and various projects, people and ups and downs in the steel industry—leading all the way up to the announcement of his retirement in 2025. Let's dive straight into the interview, which Mark begins by sharing his earliest memories of steel.

[Transition music]

Mark Vassella  00:56

I think I was destined for the steel industry from birth. I was born in a place called Lithgow. For those of us that now know the story, of course, that was the start of the steel industry in Australia—failed there, but the start of the steel industry. So, I was born in a little place called Lithgow, which, you know, quite frankly (without being disrespectful to my place of birth), is not the nicest place in Australia, but the steelworks was there. My parents... on my mother’s side, my grandfather was the baker in town and on my father's side, his father ran the Kandos cement factory and my dad was a coal miner. So, born in Lithgow, left at a fairly early age (four or five) and went to a tiny, little place in Newcastle called Caves Beach, which is a long way from Lithgow, both in distance and in lifestyle. So I was lucky enough to grow up on the beach in Newcastle, Dad worked in the coal mines, so I think from the start, I probably was destined for the steel industry.

Mark Vassella  01:59

And then, of course, landing in Newcastle in those days, the BHP Steelworks—biggest employer in town—dominated the local economy. And as I finished high school and determined what I wanted to do, because in those days, you probably didn’t (I didn’t) think too much about what I wanted to do until I stopped school... and found myself with a degree traineeship in commerce at the steelworks. So, the steelworks had always been part of my life, our life; it was in the background, it was the big guy in town in Newcastle, for better or for worse. People used to drive into Newcastle and see Sandgate Cemetery and the steelworks and think, What am I doing here? But if you actually went a little bit further and got into Newcastle, you realised what an idyllic place it was to live: the beaches, the vineyards, the Hunter Valley, a fabulous place to live and grow up. But that’s how I found my way into the steel industry, and as I said, probably, probably destined from birth, being born in Lithgow.

Martin Feld  02:58

I love that picture that you paint of the industry and that pull, like it's, you've just said you're ‘destined’. I'm interested to hear a little bit more about maybe some of the early lessons or family values that were instilled in you. You mentioned coal mining, baking, those sorts of professions in the family. What are some of the earliest lessons or values that you can remember being instilled in you, with that family background and being surrounded by those kinds of job?

Mark Vassella  03:21

Oh, and work, right? Work—both my mum and dad worked: Dad, coal miner; Mum sold dresses at a dress shop in Belmont for 30 years. We were largely raised by our grandmother, who, after my grandfather had retired from the bakery in Lithgow, moved to Swansea, just near Caves Beach, to be near the family. So, my grandmother, she did a lot of the early raising of us because both Mum and Dad worked. So, you know, I grew up in an environment where work was what you did. Still, unfortunately, the discipline of getting up early when your dad's a coal miner and your grandfather was a baker, unfortunately, my body clock goes off way too early in the morning, which my wife and daughters don’t like. But, you know, work, I think, was really the ethic, and practicality, pragmatism. You know, Dad, Dad was a boilermaker, so he could do anything with his hands. And we’ll touch on diversity at some stage, but you know, I’ve said many times that’s, that’s why industries like these industries are so important for our country: to provide that diversity for people, who aren’t necessarily going to go to university or want to be lawyers or doctors. But I’m sure we’ll touch on that. So yeah, probably the ethic that I remember the most was work, and coming out of high school straight into the traineeship, it allowed me to go to full-time work, to study part-time, so I was immediately embraced by the industry, and started to learn about the steel industry straight out of high school. 

Martin Feld  04:52

Fantastic. Now, can you tell us more about what you studied, what you applied that work ethic to and what really brought you into those early days of working in steel?

Mark Vassella  05:01

Yeah, I think Dad was probably horrified when he realised that his first son was going to be an accountant, given he was a boilermaker. So that was, I’m sure that was a terrible experience for him, when he realised I was pretty useless with my hands, where he was so capable with his hands. But, yeah, I studied a commerce degree at Newcastle University. The first 12 months of my traineeship, I had six months at the blast furnace and six months at the rod mill. And of course, in those days, it was nothing more than production recording, typing on typewriters, which not not everybody watching this will remember what a typewriter is. Typing on typewriters, production reports or memos, I had to walk to the number two merchant mill to do the photocopying, because there wasn't a photocopier at the rod mill, but really learning about the industry and that experience of living and breathing the rod mill, living and breathing the blast furnace.

Mark Vassella  05:57

And of course, in those days as staff trainees, we were the strike-breakers, so when one of the continuous operating facilities had a strike, and our industrial relations in those days was much poorer than it is now, so it was a very regular occurrence, we’d get the phone call and say, ‘You’re working the blast-furnace floor on afternoon shift or dog watch, or you’re working the coke ovens’ lids on afternoon shift or dog watch’, so you'd finish your day work, put your cotton drills on... if you’re working on the lids, put your wooden clogs on and go, and go and work on the coke ovens’ lids. I know the coke-oven lids well, because that tended to be where they sent me. I don't know why that was the case, but that tended to be the place that I was sent more than, more than most. But it’s just an incredible way, even for someone who was studying accounting, to learn about the operations of the business and the critical issues in the business.

Martin Feld  06:52

Yeah, it sounds like you were thrust very practically into seeing the operations practically...

Mark Vassella  06:55

Very practically, I mean, hands-on practically, yes.

Martin Feld  06:58

And on the point of finance or accounting, I’m interested, before we delve deeper into your career and a lot of the places that you’ve been and the roles that you’ve held, which I think people listening will be familiar, tell us about finance as an interest. What interested you or inspired you about that as a theoretical concept? What do you get from numbers?

Mark Vassella  07:17

It’s probably not going to be the inspiring answer that you're looking for, it was probably more about: what else was I going to do, rather? What else couldn't I do rather than finance? Again, much differently, in those days, there wasn’t a lot of career planning. You finished high school, you then really thought about what you wanted to do. I initially thought I’d go into teaching—was my initial inclination—then I applied for some traineeships, because of the concept of being able to work straight away and study part-time, back to probably that work-ethic situation and was important for me to start to earn income in our family.

Mark Vassella  07:54

The traineeships, I just, almost fell into finance. I was, sadly not an engineer, maybe a frustrated engineer, but sadly, not an engineer. In those days, they hadn't even started things like marketing, so finance was, it was... it tended to be engineering, metallurgy, HR and finance were the four streams that cadetships were offered in, or traineeships were offered in, and I finished up going down the finance path. So it’s, it's not as inspiring or planned as it sounds, as it might have been, but that’s where I ended up so, and of course, finance at the steelworks was about cost accounting, and again, that practical application of costs, cost per tonne, by operating unit, by equipment. So, it was a different sort of finance, as opposed to a chartered accounting finance degree, where it’s much more about accounting and debits and credits. For us as finance cadets, it was, it was much more cost accounting and management accounting, as we used to call it.

Martin Feld  09:02

That’s an excellent explanation. So, building on that theoretical knowledge that you built up and those practical experiences through the traineeship, what happened next in your career? Where did that traineeship take you and what were you exposed to as your career progressed?

Mark Vassella  09:11

Well, we had this fabulous opportunity, if you’d kept your nose clean and had passed all of your subjects after working full-time and studying part-time, the company actually gave us the option to finish our degree, studying full-time and working part-time. So, I was one of the very lucky full-time uni students who was getting a salary. In those days, they reduced your salary by 50 per cent but you went to, you went to university full-time and came back to work over the Christmas break. So, I was a uni student with money, which was not a common thing, worked part-time, studied full-time, finished my degree, went into the cost department at BHP in Newcastle, in that fabulous old building that looks like it’s out of Gone with the Wind—beautiful, old stone-and-timber building. And I worked there for a couple of years in the cost department, on and off the plant, worked on major capital projects. We worked on the bloom-caster at Newcastle, the capital evaluation of the bloom-caster, so in and out of the various finance departments at Newcastle.

Mark Vassella  10:18

And of course, in BHP, all roads led to Melbourne. I was a kid from Newcastle who’d grown up on the beach; Melbourne didn't really appeal to me at that time, and then BHP decided to build a brand new rod mill in Brisbane. I applied for and got the job as the accountant at the rod mill in Brisbane. And I thought, Well, going north to Brisbane sounds like a much better idea than going south to Melbourne. So I jumped at the chance and that’s when I first left the steelworks and finished up in Brisbane as an accountant for a brand-new facility that was under construction at the time, which was a unique experience in and of itself.

Martin Feld  10:55

And can you tell me a bit about the culture of BHP at that time or what it was like to work and also moving cities at that stage?

Mark Vassella  11:02

Yeah, very, I mean, very structured, all of that history in the steelworks—lots of it good, some of it not so good—perhaps I could classify that as the ‘old BHP’. And then I went to a start-up, effectively, in BHP. And BHP was doing something quite innovative at the time, in terms of, because it was a brand-new mill, because it was a start-up, it was removed from the steelworks. They chose to make their employees staff members. There was a different union structure and a different environment, a very flat management structure. So, even within the BHP context, as they built the mini mill (or the rod mill) in Brisbane, they tried to set it up as a start-up company. So, it was fascinating to come from the mothership, which was very big and very structured and very staid, and moving to within that context, an attempt by BHP to actually create a start-up environment, not unlike the mini mills, of course, that we we now have with North Star in North America, so, almost an attempt to create a completely different environment for the start-up.

Martin Feld  12:14

Yeah, and I have no doubt that working in a start-up environment, you would have had to work differently. And you mentioned North Star, which comes later in your story; that starts to conjure ideas of leadership or where you were going. Was leadership something that you really had in mind? Was it an aspiration?

Mark Vassella  12:31

I think I probably always gravitated towards leadership roles at school, in sporting teams. I tended to find myself invariably, in some sort of leadership role—often, often when it was trying to solve a problem or get a place out of a bind. When I went to University of Newcastle, I discovered rugby union. I’d never played rugby before, and at the time, one of the senior finance guys at Newcastle Steelworks was a guy called Mick Goldman, a beautiful man, the President of the Rugby Club, and I got hauled into his office as a very young cadet and told very clearly that it was going to be good for my career to go and play rugby at the University of Newcastle. I grew up on the beach, I grew up in a surf club, I’d never played a game of rugby in my life! So, I turned up as a 19-year-old to university rugby training and then had 10 fabulous years playing rugby at the University of Newcastle and later at the University of Queensland. But when I first arrived, the University of Newcastle Rugby Club was broke, that they didn’t have enough players to field four teams, and I found myself ultimately in a leadership role there as we turned the rugby club around.

Mark Vassella  13:42

So, in some ways, it’s probably just where I've always naturally gravitated to, rather than aspiring to it. I’ve been lucky enough that there’s been opportunities along the way, whether it’s in my personal and social life or in my professional life, to have opportunities for leadership, and, and then it’s about just stepping in and taking it, so probably not an aspiration or a plan again, but it seems to be the way it’s worked out.

Martin Feld  14:10

It's in you. And is it fair to say that he was right about rugby and leadership?

Mark Vassella  14:14

Ah, yes, yes. He, uh, he... we won three, we won three premierships in a row before I left and moved to Queensland with, with the rod mill, the rolling mill. The club was very successful, so yeah, we had a, we had a little purple patch where it was very successful and a lot of fun. He passed away just a few years ago, but I saw him just before he passed, and he said to me, ‘You know, I told you, it’d be good for your career, and I think you've done OK in your career as well’. So I think Goldie, Goldie was right in directing me that way.

Martin Feld  14:45

I really appreciate that little narrative you've put in there, that’s great, and great that you got to catch up with him at that time, at the end. Talking about that pull or that destiny of leadership, what came next in your career? You mentioned when you moved to Brisbane, you mentioned the rod mill, where did things go from there? Where did that pull you?

Mark Vassella  15:02

So, I went to the rod mill, we had a fabulous time, great start-ups, some incredible experiences with a start-up facility. You know, you talked (mentioned) earlier about how you work in a small environment like that, again, and maybe it's my pragmatism, but I remember one event where we put a whole bunch of billets into the furnace as we were commissioning the plant and the billets buckled and they had to be manually extracted. And of course, there's, there just weren't enough people around, so the production supervisor at the time came in and grabbed me by the ear and gave me some overalls and said, ‘You’re going to work at the back of the furnace and pull the billets out’, which was quite a manual operation. I finished up at the end of the day sunburnt with no hair on my hands or face from the heat, but that sort of working experience was pretty unique.

Mark Vassella  15:50

And then I followed a couple of the guys who’d been involved in that start-up for BHP to a small company that was very exciting at the time called Palmer Tube Mills. And three of us, the general manager, the production manager and myself (as the accountant) moved across to Palmer Tube Mills and I went into a finance role there. But not long after that, Ross Palmer, who was the entrepreneur in the start-up, the founder of the company, launched out and bought a business in the United States, and he and most of the management team went to the United States to, to integrate the asset. And as a young accountant in my late twenties, right spot, right time, Ross said to me, ‘You know, we're going to the US; I’d like you to be the general manager’. Completely unqualified and... but he was going and I got thrown the keys to look after the Australian business. So I, I started as the General Manager at Palmer Tube Mills in my late twenties. So, that was my first real step out of my function of finance into a leadership role and, and a bit of happenstance, as I said, in the right spot at the right time. So that’s, that's how it all started.

Martin Feld  17:03

That sounds very daunting.

Mark Vassella  17:04

It was frightening. It was terrifying!

Martin Feld  17:06

And what were some of the big challenges of that general manager role, or what did you learn or take away from it to arm you for what came next?

Mark Vassella  17:13

Well, all of a sudden you learn everyone's looking at you. You’ve got to make the final decision. I went from being a member of a team with my colleagues to being their leader, which is not easy. You go from being one of the members of the team to the captain of the team, that’s, that’s not necessarily an easy thing to do, and I was ill-equipped. I had some people around me who were not only colleagues, but friends; we worked terrifically as a team, and they rallied around me and supported me in that early stage. They also gave me some pretty hard feedback and some tough love, and I needed it because I, quite frankly, didn’t know what I was doing. But collectively we, we sort of managed our way through it and then had a, had a really good run at Palmer Tube Mills—a very successful time where the business brought customer focus, marketing, branding, innovation to the pipe-and-tube space. And ironically, at that time, they were competing against Tubemakers, which was part of the BHP group, not fully-owned, but large-percentage-owned by BHP. So, I'd gone from BHP to a small company that was competing against one of the BHP affiliates, and was very successful because of that creativity and innovation and customer focus, which probably weren’t BHP Steel's strengths at the time.

Martin Feld  18:38

That’s really fascinating, and I think people who are listening, who maybe don’t know as much about you are thinking, Wow, there's all of this stuff before BlueScope! right? What was that transition from these earlier times working in this general manager role, to the BlueScope story, becoming the leader you are today? Where was that transition? How did it take place?

Mark Vassella  18:58

Well, I went to Palmer’s and became the general manager. Sometime after that, Palmer’s was sold to another Australian industrial company called Australian National Industries, based out of Sydney. So, they acquired the Palmer Tube Mills business, I went into ANI... sometime after that, the Smorgon Steel group in Melbourne acquired Australian National Industries as they were listing on the stock exchange, coming out of private ownership and on, onto the stock exchange. And then I found myself in the Smorgon Steel Group and in Melbourne, so Melbourne finally got me. And then, of course, I had 10 years at Smorgon’s, until ultimately, the Smorgon Steel Group was broken up and sold to BlueScope, and OneSteel at the time, and I finished up in BlueScope. So, I’ve come through a couple or three takeovers into new companies, into new environments, into very different cultures: BHP Steel; Palmer Tube Mills, effectively a start-up; ANI, not a great company, I’ve gotta say; Smorgon Steel, a 100-year-family-history company, incredible, incredible learnings from a company like that; and then into BlueScope. So, starting in 1981 (showing my age, as a cadet), quite a circle to come back to BlueScope/BHP Steel in 2007, so I came, I came full-circle and came back home.

Martin Feld  20:33

I love this recurring motif of ‘destiny’ and ‘full circle’. It's great. And when you arrived at BlueScope, what was your impression of the place?

Mark Vassella  20:43

Well, BlueScope, at that stage, was incredibly successful. It had come out of BHP, the share price was flying, massive investments in Asia, the trapezoid strategy—as I discovered when I joined the company. I came into the company with the downstream distribution assets, what’s now BlueScope Distribution, so I came in, I came into the company with those assets. It was just at the time when the transition was happening with (or the process for the transition was underway between) Kirby and Paul. So, I arrived at an interesting time in the organisation where all that CEO-succession stuff was going on. I was the newbie in the organisation, had come in through the acquisition, Paul took over the role, BlueScope had acquired Smorgon Steel, but also the IMSA assets in North America.

Mark Vassella  21:39

And not long after I arrived, 2007, I arrived in 2008, Paul asked me to go to the US and take on the US businesses and integrate the IMSA assets that we acquired. So, I got the opportunity to move to the US quite early in my time at BlueScope, which, which, as it turns out, was um, was a lot of fun and a lot of challenge as well, given the timing, but it was a fantastic opportunity to go to the United States.

Martin Feld  22:10

What were the, maybe some of the—and this could be positive or negative—what were some of the personal effects of moving to the US? Undoubtedly, you learnt lots of lessons about running business there and seeing industry first-hand, but uh, what was it like to live there?

Mark Vassella  22:23

Oh, it’s a fabulous opportunity, but it’s not without its challenges. I mean, my daughters were 13 and 15 in a very organised bubble in Melbourne—school friends, social life—and I went home to them and said, ‘You know, how’d you like to go and live in Kansas City?’

Mark Vassella  22:41

And of course, the first question is, ‘Where the Hell is Kansas City?’ So, there were, there were some challenging times personally, both before we left and when we got there, but we managed to ride through that. And, and my daughters are way the better for the experience, and they didn't think that at the time; they'd probably privately acknowledge that now, they've never really acknowledged to me, but they probably privately acknowledged that. And then on a professional basis, it turned out to be almost a disaster. I moved there in 2008, BlueScope had made the two acquisitions that I talked about, the company had two-and-a-half billion dollars of debt and we ran straight into the GFC. So, I got there in August 2008, Lehman Brothers went broke in October 2008, the business plan of integrating the assets in America went out the window and we started the first of several quite challenging periods for the company, where it was a tough time for the organisation.

Martin Feld  23:48

And reflecting on it now, it’s... there's a narrative arc, it’s, you know, lessons learnt, it’s easy to speak about in hindsight, but did you ever ask yourself at the time, Why did I do this?Mark Vassella  23:57

Well, I remember going home on more than one occasion, saying to my wife, Anna, ‘I reckon we're cooked, I think this is over; you probably need to start and think about moving the kids back to Australia, because I'm not sure I'm going to be here that long’. Now, thankfully, we managed to ride through it—incredibly supportive board, very good ELT, unbelievable effort from within the organisation... We managed to scrape through, but yeah, there were a couple of occasions where I actually thought either the US assets were going to be sold or something more dire might have happened to the organisation. I didn’t have time, at the time, to be thinking, Gosh, I wish I’d have done something different; you just roll your sleeves up and get into it and hope that wherever you land and assume that wherever you land, there’ll be something else to do or another opportunity. It's not really a situation where you can spend your time thinking about, Oh, I wish I'd have done something different.

Martin Feld  25:02

I’m certainly pleased that I didn't have to run a major business during the Global Financial Crisis, so, but you're in the hot seat, and maybe you can tell me: what, what are some of the key lessons that you learnt from an experience like that? How did you change as a leader or what knowledge did you build that set you up for later from that experience?

Mark Vassella  25:12

It was a very important time for me as a leader to actually go through something as dire as that, because, of course, I then got the opportunity to come back to Australia and deal with the issues that we found ourselves facing here, and it’s all the things that you would expect. I mean, at the end of the day, it’s all about the team and the people. It’s all about how you deal with your customers. It’s all about dealing with tough issues with empathy and respect. No one likes it, no one enjoys it, but it's the reality and I think if you confront it openly and honestly and you’re clear with people about the issues that you're facing and what the alternatives are, people don’t like it or have to like it, but they get it and they understand it, and that’s really what I've found most powerful in terms of dealing with sort of very tough issues that you've got to confront in a business.

Mark Vassella  26:11

But it also teaches you to not lose focus when times aren't so bad, because those foundations then become something you might have to undo later on down the track. So, you know, in many ways, managing in the crisis situation is easier because you’ve actually got a foundation for change and a justification for some of the decisions you have to make. When things are going swimmingly, you can lose focus and take your eye off the ball and then create problems that you've got to deal with later on.

Martin Feld  26:45

Yeah, and you've mentioned there, when times change, when they get better, of course, the reverberations of the Global Financial Crisis arguably continue to this day, like history, history goes on, but as times did improve, what happened for you and your family after the US?

Mark Vassella  27:01

Yeah, I probably didn't get to enjoy much of the improved conditions. I had the three years in the US (2008 through 2011) and then came back to Australia to deal with the challenges here at Port Kembla. I sit back now and look at what's happened in North America, how we’ve grown the performance of businesses like the Buildings business and Steelscape that are performing at a level that’s materially higher than when I was there, and that’s, I mean, that’s fabulous, that those businesses have made the change, got themselves reset and are now benefitting from that. But yeah, I actually didn’t get to enjoy too much of that, because I left there in 2011, came back to Australia and walked straight into, you know, the very serious situation that we we had here in Port Kembla and the really tough decisions to shut No. 6, a whole bunch of assets here, the Hot Strip mill at Western Port. So I, uh, think I jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, but, you know, again, what an incredible learning experience.

Mark Vassella  28:12

So, I moved back from the US without my family. They stayed there for various periods beyond me, returning, my wife for about 18 months, my youngest daughter for a couple of years and then my eldest daughter finished up graduating from college in the United States. So, I came here and lived here in Wollongong for 18 months in an apartment up at North Beach, which was very nice to be near the beach, and commuted backwards and forwards to Kansas City for an extended period as we were dealing with the issues here and I was gradually relocating my family out of Kansas City. 

Martin Feld  28:48

You mentioned before that when you’re in the thick of this stuff, it's hard to maybe step back or appreciate what’s going on. You're trying to run a business and deal with all these problems, but now that you can look back on that time, how was that to be commuting between two countries and have your family living in the other country?

Mark Vassella  29:04

Oh, it was brutal. I mean, the three years that I lived there, then the 18 months I commuted, I, I shudder to think how many times I’ve flown between Australia and North America. And I probably didn’t realise until it stopped that I was in a perpetual state of jet lag, quite frankly, just exhausted. And of course, you also face the dilemma of, when you’re there, you’re worrying about the business back here and when you’re here, you’re worrying about your family back there. So, you have that dilemma as well. But it is what it is, as they say, right? And it was the right decision for us to let the kids to finish their high school, do their college work, not pull them out and disrupt that process again. So, it was, it was something that I did to make sure that we dealt with both the professional challenges but also the family issues.

Martin Feld  29:52

Yeah, that would have been very difficult. Thank you for sharing it. And you mentioned Western Port and Port Kembla, two very significant, major sites that have totally entangled relationships with their community. They’re one and the same in many respects; many people work and live and breathe these places. What was it like to move into Wollongong? Obviously, you love the beach and that's a great lifestyle aspect, but we’re sitting here in Port Kembla today for this interview. We're approaching 100 years of iron- and steel-making at this site. What did you think of Port Kembla at the time, or what, what did you observe about this massive industrial asset, this icon?

Mark Vassella  30:28

Well, if I had any advantage, I think this was where I had an advantage, because growing up in Newcastle, I had the mirror image of what’s happening here in Port Kembla. So I, I understood the community, I understood—not being from here—but I understood what the community would be like, I understood the, the influence and the impact that the business has on the community. I understood the role that it plays in the community. I understood how critical it is to the community. And, you know, in some ways, you talked before about aspiring or inspiration, I mean, in some ways what inspired me or drove me to keep going, is: I'd seen what happens to a town and a community when a steelworks closes. I saw it in Newcastle. I wasn’t there for the very end of the steelworks but I was there as a young cadet for the very first major cut in employment. There was more than 10,000 people working at the Newcastle Steelworks and and they laid off (BHP laid off) 5000 people (I think it was) overnight. It was an extraordinary impact on the region and the economy and people’s livelihoods.

Mark Vassella  31:32

So, if I had any capability or advantage or skill coming in, that’s one area where I felt I had that understanding. You know, being a Newcastle lad, I always thought Newcastle was better than Port Kembla. Having lived here now, I'm a bit more I’m a bit more conflicted—uh, they're both beautiful—but that was probably an advantage that I had coming into this incredible community. I understood the role that the steelworks played and its importance to the community and the region, and that then weighs on the challenge around the really difficult decisions we had to make around reductions in capacity and reductions in employment, but with a view to the alternative of it closing completely is disastrous, so we have to do what we have to do to avoid that ever happening again. Probably the inspiration and the aspiration, back to your earlier question—that’s, that’s one that stands out for me.

Martin Feld  32:34

A bit of a personal mission, to make sure it didn’t happen?

Mark Vassella  32:37

Yes.

Martin Feld  32:37

Yeah, and you mentioned before, things like closing No. 6... it’s amazing now to be sitting here as No. 6 is a major project outside being reborn or resurrected. So, that’s a, that's a great narrative turn, I suppose you could say. But how did you navigate that period? How did you come out the other side in order to enable this course of history?

Mark Vassella  32:58

Look, just an incredible team effort. When I got here, the challenges were obvious and urgent, the demands from the organisation to fix it were very strong, because they had to be. I mean, the company was going, potentially going broke. So, we had a business that was losing money. It was a very different environment and we had parity with, with exchange rates, iron ore was $180 a tonne, coal was through the roof, China was exploding in terms of steel production and exports flooding into markets at bottom-of-the-cycle spread, so it was the worst possible environment for the extern-... the macro conditions, so we really had to cut the cloth to suit, which was an incredibly difficult time. But the team, and many of them still involved with the organisation today, uh, you know, John Nowlan and Peter Rankin, those people were just incredible in terms of rallying the troops, the team to to face into those issues and deal with them. And uh, you know, many people I, I’ve said, I’ve said before, you know, watching people work absolutely as hard as they can to work themselves out of a job is a pretty humbling experience to watch. But people did it, and I think broadly, we're able to communicate the message that whilst there’s some really painful things we’ve got to do here, if we don’t do them, it's going to be a much worse outcome than we ultimately forecast at the time.

Mark Vassella  34:40

So, yeah, it was, uh, it was a pretty, pretty confronting period, but you know, great, unbelievable team effort from the very top of the organisation to the workforce, who all made sacrifices, all lent into the issue, all took it on, very courageously dealt with it. And when you look at the business now, as you say No. 6, I remember Dave Bell at the time, was running, running the front end. I went out with Dave Bell and sat with him, when he told the team at No. 6, ‘We're going to close No. 6’. I mean, one of the most memorable, sadly memorable moments of my working career, and Dave did it unbelievably courageously, and I look at it now...

Martin Feld  35:23

It would have been insanely difficult.

Mark Vassella  35:27

Yeah.

Martin Feld  35:28

And you’ve spoken about the team, like, you're sharing that credit, which is wonderful. You've been through all of these different leadership positions. You moved into the Australian leadership position...

Mark Vassella  35:39

Yeah.

Martin Feld  35:39

...as well. What was it like to navigate, although it is one big team at BlueScope, what was it like to navigate maybe two different working cultures—the people out on the floor doing the operational work and, and the people in the offices? Because we’re all here for the same mission but what did you learn in, in managing or navigating those different working environments?

Mark Vassella  35:57

Well, having always worked in industrial environments, I guess it’s a bit of a, it’s almost a home game for me in terms of being used to those different environments and having seen unionised environments or structured environments, non-unionised environments, they all have their, their pluses and their minuses. But I think ultimately it’s, it’s that same principle. It’s about communication and openness and integrity and doing what you say you’re going to do. People get it and you know, 99.99 per cent of people come to work, thinking, I want to contribute and I want to make the place better. Sometimes, I think we get distracted by that very small percentage that don’t think like that, and that’s OK, you know, people make their own decisions, but the vast majority of people I’ve found over the years come to work, thinking, I want to contribute, I want to add value, I want to be challenged, I want to get rewarded appropriately for that, I want to go, go home safely and then I want to come back tomorrow and do it again. And I think if you, if you tap into that and don't lose sight of that, yes, there’s skirmishes on the way, EBA negotiations, industrial issues, there’s skirmishes on the way but I think if you keep your eye on that bigger picture, you can deal with the noise that can happen in the interim. It’s not always pleasant at the time, it’s distracting and annoying (it can be), uh, but I think you’ve got to keep your eye on the bigger picture and the industrial backbone of our country that we're a fundamental part of, I think, is worth the effort, and the challenge and the aggravation on the way through, to make sure that we keep that picture and goal in mind.

Martin Feld  37:38

You used a term there that I want to pick on for a second, which, which is great. You said, the ‘bigger picture’ (or the ‘big picture’). So, over the course of your career, you’ve naturally had to look at the details, whether it’s different operating environments, different working cultures, the intrinsic nature of different businesses internationally, and then you found yourself back in the Australian business, looking after this, this manufacturing icon or these different iconic sites, like Port Kembla, Western Port—everything that connects to them, upstream and downstream. The big picture, though, globally, that is a very different kind of role, so how did you shift from being head of the business in Australia to being the head of things globally? Surely, that has a different set of concerns or questions.

Mark Vassella  38:20

Yeah, it does and it’s the great privilege of the CEO role that you, you then get the opportunity to think and look across the business globally. It’s what makes these roles so fascinating and as I said, a privilege to undertake. And I think, you know, ultimately, it’s, it probably suits some people and doesn’t suit others. You did say, I need to be across the detail; there’s probably a few people who will spit their coffee out if they’re having a cup of coffee with that. I’m not necessarily renowned for my attention to detail, but what I did realise is you gotta have a bunch of people around you who are really good at the stuff that you’re not good at. But the opportunity to then step back, think about the business globally: How do we position it? How do we fortify it? How do we think about where our growth is coming from, both domestically, internationally? How do we manage across the cultures they're in?

Mark Vassella  39:11

I mean, BlueScope, in many ways, we’re not the biggest company in Australia, but in many ways we’re a fascinating company and a unique company, if you think about the success this company's had: almost 100 years here, as you mentioned, of steel-making, which is incredible in its own right; but then the courage and the conviction to go to the, to go to Asia and set up businesses across that footprint in Asia; then to go to the United States and operate in a completely different jurisdiction, you know, one of the biggest steel markets in the world, and compete in that market. I mean, it's an extraordinary company. There’s lots of stories of Australian companies going overseas, not getting it right, coming home with their tail between their legs. We’ve stayed the course, and I think that’s one of the great strengths and one of the great attractions of BlueScope, that you’re operating in a company that is truly a global company in a really tough industry.

Mark Vassella  40:03

So, it’s a great credit to everybody that's been involved over the 100 years or so, and when you get to the position that I’ve been lucky enough to hold for the last eight years, it just... it makes it all, all the more enjoyable that you’re able to sit down and think about: what do I need to do to make sure this business is around for another 100 years, and where do we sit, and where do we operate and how do we grow and how do we defend? It’s a fascinating part of the role.

Martin Feld  40:30

Absolutely, and before, you were talking about living in a state of constant jet lag, going between the US and Australia, for example, but I'm assuming there's a lot of jet lag as a global CEO as well. You mentioned Asia, there’s the US, we’ve got, there’s New Zealand Steel as well. What is the travel like, going around the world, interacting and mingling with people of all of these different cultures, who maybe share this mission, but have a different experience or place in the supply chain?

Mark Vassella  40:55

Yeah, I mean the travel’s, the travel is demanding, but you go into a role like this, knowing that that’s the case. I see it as just a part of the role, because you need to do these things face to face. COVID taught us that you can do lots of things virtually, no question, but there's no substitute for being on the ground, talking to our people face to face. So, a really important part of my role is spending time in the businesses, talking to our people, understanding what's going on, but also understanding what's happening in those environments. I've had the luxury of working in the United States, so I understand that market somewhat. I've had the luxury and the opportunity to sit on our joint-venture boards in India and Asia. So, I've spent a lot of time involved in our businesses in those areas, and that’s, that’s helpful in terms of understanding cultures, markets, opportunities, risks that you need to think through when you’re thinking about the business, and the portfolio of assets and how we manage it going forward.

Martin Feld  42:04

Brilliant, and you mentioned there, being a part of boards, maybe things that you only really get to do once you’re in that leadership position with your wealth of experience, but also the opportunity to think about the big picture, or try other things, meet new people. What other kinds of association or groups have you been able to be a part of in your role that are maybe directly connected to BlueScope or maybe more tangential?

Mark Vassella  42:24

Well, directly connected, we’re an active member of the World Steel Association, which is a fantastic industry association, in fact, where we hold a position on the board, which is a privilege for us (a relatively small steel-maker like us), but it is a reflection of the role that we’ve played in that organisation. Kirby was president at one stage; Paul played a very active role in it; I’ve been very active in it. We’ve contributed from within our business in areas like safety and maintenance and capital expenditure, so we punch above our weight in that organisation and contribute heavily. Hosted the event here in Port Kembla just a couple of years ago, which was, which was fabulous. ResponsibleSteel™, another organisation that we've been heavily involved in, of course, very, very rich background and history from our organisation, with the formation of ResponsibleSteel™.

Mark Vassella  43:22

Being part of that is an important part of, I think, having our company, even though we’re again, not the biggest steel-maker in the world, having our company at the forefront of what’s happening globally in the industry, and that gives you perspectives on things like where you want to operate. I mean, right now the steel industry in Europe’s in a terrible state, unfortunately. Operating in those associations with colleagues that are operating in those areas allows you to come back and think carefully about where we might or might not want to be involved.

Martin Feld  43:56

With worldsteel, ResponsibleSteel™, a big theme is sustainability. You brought up diversity as well before. You’ve worked across a lot of different brands and sites and so on, maybe with varying levels of success or commitment to those themes. How are they important to you?

Mark Vassella  44:12

Well, I think they’re critical. If you think about sustainability, I think, we have played the sustainability game as well as any steel company anywhere in the world. And I’m really proud of the efforts that BlueScope's made to position ourselves, not only with our existing footprint and asset base and the improvements that are happening there, you know, the improvements that will come out of No. 6, electric arc furnace in New Zealand, but equally, the role we’ve played around opportunities like NeoSmelt, which could be a significant opportunity, not just for BlueScope, but, quite frankly, for Australia, given the potential impact it has on that critical iron-ore business that we have in this country. I've said flippantly before, and I don't want it to sound arrogant, but you know, sustainability has been a part of the steel industry forever. If you don't come to work tomorrow and think about, How do I do it with less energy, with less raw materials, faster?… you know, more efficiently, then you don't survive. That’s, that’s the sort of business that we’re in, because that’s what your competitors are doing. It got rebadged as sustainability, and I’m OK with that also, but what I, what I’ve stressed when I talk to people like our governments or ministers or, or external, external parties, don’t, don't think this just happened to us four or five years ago—we’ve been working on doing this forever. And, you know, I see decarbonisation is just a natural next step of that and we're at the very forefront of that, so, I’m very proud of how BlueScope’s positioned itself in that space, where we’re recognised globally for the role that we’ve played, our reporting suite... the work that we’re doing is, in many ways, potentially, you know, a significant step forward from a technology perspective, and, and that’s something, again, we’re probably punching above our weight, but something that I think we can be all very proud of.

Martin Feld  46:04

You’ve covered very well both the company’s commitment and your own personal connection to some of those themes. But I’m glad that you brought up the words ‘media’ and ‘government’ there, because I imagine, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I imagine that when you enter a leadership position, and maybe you know steel-making or finance, or all of the different things that you've learnt very intimately. Dealing with people beyond the company in media and government, that’s a whole extra challenge, so how would you describe or explain the experience of presenting to and forging relationships with people in media and government as a global CEO?

Mark Vassella  46:36

It can be a bit terrifying, certainly the media. So, your first experiences can be quite confronting, and you get to practice it quite a bit, so, you get more comfortable with it, but you’re never really comfortable with it. We’ve seen some examples over the last year or so in Australia where companies or individuals have lost their way with the media and how that resonates through the media. You’ve got to be always on your guard and always being a bit nervous or a bit terrified of—it’s probably a good way to, a good way to enter it and a good way to go into an interview or a discussion, although I’m not terrified of you, but, but...

Martin Feld  47:11

Thank goodness!

Mark Vassella  47:12

Yeah, ha! But you do, you do have to be aware, certainly, I think the other thing that I think we’ve done as a company well is we don't necessarily seek out the media. We’ll make a statement or take a position on something that’s critical for the company, but I avoid, at all costs, requests for media events or pieces that don’t relate to the company, because I think that just increases the risk. So, we were quite vocal last year about gas, but something that is critical to manufacturing in this country and critical to us as Australia’s biggest manufacturer. So, I’m happy to step into the space where that occurs, but very reluctant to go beyond issues that aren’t relevant to the company. So, that’s probably my comment around media, but you’re never truly comfortable in front of the media.

Mark Vassella  47:59

Governments—lots of work and lots of effort, and because governments change so regularly here in Australia, even if we just assume they work on a three-year term, that's still a lot of change that occurs and it's really about being represented in Canberra or in Macquarie Street and putting our case, helping governments understand what are complex issues, whether it’s sustainability or, or decarbonisation or trade. Understanding the complexity around those issues takes a lot of work, but again, something that I think BlueScope has done, and BHP before it perhaps, but certainly BlueScope has done very well, both here locally in our community and with the State Government. We put a lot of effort into building relationships and helping people in Canberra understand the importance of this business and industry.

Martin Feld  49:00

You’ve said very, very clearly throughout this interview, it’s a lot of work. Recently, you decided it’s time to finish. It’s time to move on. It’s time to hand the reins over. How was it to make that decision? How difficult was it for you, given that the work never stops?

Mark Vassella  49:16

It was pretty terrifying as well! I mean, you’re, you’re, you’re dealing with your own mortality, but I think in the end, a decision that I came to over a period of time, it took me a little while, but I think what you’ve got to think about most, or for me, what I thought about most, was the organisation and making sure the organisation is in the best shape it can be. And you know, one of the, one of the risks of a role like the role that I've been lucky enough to play over the last eight years, is that it’s such an exciting opportunity. There’s so many cool things to do that you actually never go... and that’s not the right answer, either. So, ensuring that you don’t stay too long and that the organisation gets a fresh set of eyes and fresh energy, I think, was ultimately what drove me to the decision that, you know, eight years was long enough and time for the next generation of leadership to come through.

Mark Vassella  50:16

We've been blessed over our time as a company, from Kirby to Paul, from Paul to me and now from me to Tania, that we’ve had internal succession and development that’s allowed our people to grow and develop and move up into... move up in the organisation. And that’s, I mean, that’s, that’s a credit to the effort that goes into that, because external people coming in can be quite distracting. I’m really happy with how the transition’s gone, both externally and internally, and a lot, but a lot of work goes into that. But yes, I think, uh, I sat down finally and reconciled that it was time for a change for the organisation, and a time for me personally to start and think about maybe slowing down a little bit and giving my family some time back that they haven’t had from me for quite some time.

Martin Feld  51:08

That’s wonderful, and what was their reaction? (If you don’t mind my asking...)

Mark Vassella  51:11

Ah, well, it’s varied! My daughters have a list of things they want me to do, as does my wife, but my, also, my wife also doesn’t want me hanging around seven days a week, so we’ll get that balance right.

Martin Feld  51:22

OK, fair, it is all a balance! And you mentioned Tania there. Naturally, there are so many people over the course of your career, people at BlueScope, previous businesses you’ve worked at, who have contributed to your career or worked in making things a success, but you did mention Tania. Of course, you’ve worked with Tania for quite a long time. What can you say about working with Tania and where do you see this new era of BlueScope under Tania as well?

Mark Vassella  51:44

Well, certainly Tania, but also the team... If you were to ask me the thing that I look at and admire most about BlueScope, it’s, it’s the quality of the leadership. And over the last few years with, with retirements, we’ve had the opportunity to bring some new talent into the organisation. You know, people like Sam, people like Michael, a different group of individuals with different experiences. And you need to keep doing that, you need to keep refreshing and again, so getting that balance right between internal talent but also external perspectives is, is critical. So, the thing I look at and am most impressed with about BlueScope is, is the quality of that talent. And I think Tania is, I’ve worked with Tania for more than 10 years here in Australia in the very tough times. And I joke with her about this: when she was in corporate finance and playing quite a different role, challenging us in terms of, you know, ‘You need to fix this business’. And then, of course, here is the CFO back as the CEO, the CFO of the organisation where she was phenomenal, and of course, the last few years running the ASP business—so, I mean, highly-credentialed, well-positioned, an incredible executive and a wonderful person and leads a fabulous team. So I mean, I, I’m going to watch with great interest. I, I can only see BlueScope going on from strength to strength, quite frankly.

Martin Feld  53:10

Excellent, and as we approach the end of this interview, you mentioned at the very beginning the work ethic, the principles, the values that you got from your family when you were growing up, and of course, steel, in the context of this discussion, operates in cycles, right? Kind of like the cycles of life—it’s happened before, it’ll happen again. When you look at your family, the people you’ve touched, the employees who are out there and specifically your daughters, for example, what, what are some of the values or lessons that you think you’ve imprinted on them, as they look to you the way that you look at your family?

Mark Vassella  53:42

Ah well, I mean, I hope, I hope that people look and think, Well, you know, he didn’t give up, he was persistent. And I think they’re great attributes to have, not only in life, but certainly in the steel industry. Keep that goal and aspiration at the forefront. Don’t lose sight of that. Someone said a little while ago, I think it’s true: ‘It’s, it’s probably never as bad as it seems, but it’s also never as good as it seems’. So, I think keeping a healthy perspective on just where you are in the cycle and the role that you’re playing. I think it’s easy to get carried away with how good you might think you are when the cycle is going well; you then find out that it’s actually not always about you when the cycle goes against you. So, I think keeping a healthy perspective in terms of just where you are and what’s driving the business in particular...

Mark Vassella  54:40

There’s a great pragmatism about BlueScope, and I think it comes from the fact that, that we make such fabulous products. And you know, right back to the boilermaker conversation about my dad and, and this industry, I mean, I’m sure there’s lots of fabulous people working in financial services, but I, I couldn’t... I couldn’t find myself getting excited going to work if I actually wasn’t working for a company that was making something that was tangible, and practical and wonderful, as it turns out for us. So, I think that brings a culture, and an approach, and a pragmatism and a persistence that if it goes against you, it’s OK, we’ve seen this before, let’s stay the course, let’s not panic. We might need to course-correct, but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. I think, uh, you know, that attribute is important, probably in life as much as it is in the steel industry, because we will have cycles. We are going to have cycles. There’ll be cycles in the future. So keeping that, that perspective and that North Star (excuse the pun), I think, is, is, is critical.

Martin Feld  55:57

And so, looking back over the course of your career, where you’ve been, it’s making something...

Mark Vassella  56:03

Yes.

Martin Feld  56:04

...tangible and of yourself.

Mark Vassella  56:05

Yes, yes.

Martin Feld  56:07

Well, that’s fantastic. Now this has been really, really good. Thank you so much for sharing so much of your own personal experience and the story of so many others who’ve been involved with you. Is there anything that I haven't asked you in this interview that you would like to touch on? Something we didn't reveal...

Mark Vassella  56:23

I think you’ve managed to drag much more out of me than I thought I was going to give you! Ahhh, no, look, I just, as a parting comment, perhaps... the importance of this company and this industry, I don't think it’s lost on anybody, but I, I just remind people to, to keep that at the forefront. It’s amazing how many people say to me, ‘God, I love your new COLORBOND® ad!’, at all places, the shopping centre, the golf club, the pub, ‘Geez, I like that new COLORBOND® ad!’ And I think, you know, it’s such a part of our, our history and our culture... we’re such an important part of the community, whether it’s here or in Western Port, or Glenbrook or Delta, wherever, wherever we are, we’re such, we’re such an important part of the community. And that diversity that we provide for people to be metallurgists, or scientists or accountants, but also for people who are good with their hands, and they can make things and they’re pragmatic, and they add value but they don’t necessarily want or need to go to university and get a degree.

Mark Vassella  57:44

When I talk about diversity for BlueScope, of course, gender is a key issue, ethnicity is a key issue, but that diversity, I think, is such a fundamental part of a culture, and an economy and a country, that when you lose it, it’s... we’re the poorer for it. I mean, I think back to the automotive industry and, and the decisions that were taken that saw the automotive industry close. You can argue the economics. I'm not sure there's any automotive industry anywhere in the world that’s not government-subsidised. We chose to stop our subsidies and the industry disappeared, and we’re the poorer for it. Innovation, engineering, manufacturing... all of that phenomenal supply-chain stuff that came out of, out of the automotive industry. Australia is the poorer for that. I just urge people to continue to fight the good fight because in a small economy like Australia, unlike economies like the US, once assets like these are gone, they never come back, because you can never justify their reinvestment. The market’s not big enough. So, perhaps it’s that calling piece again, having seen Newcastle close, I think it’s, uh, just continue to fight the good fight and not lose sight of how important this company is.

Martin Feld  59:04

Well, thank you so much for giving your time to the podcast today. Thank you for everything that you’ve done at BlueScope and for acknowledging the many people whose names can’t feature in a conversation as short as this one. So thank you so much, Mark, thank you for your time.

Mark Vassella  59:17

Thank you.

[Transition music]

Martin Feld  57:02

Thank you for listening to this podcast episode, to which Mark generously gave his time. As always, you can check the show notes for further links to relevant articles, videos and photo collections. We’ll catch you soon for another instalment of Voices of BlueScope. Until then!

[Closing theme music]